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Glenn Greenwald: The Deep State Undermined Trump Because He Threatened Their Power | Video | RealClearPolitics


Glenn Greenwald discusses who is really in charge of the government on ‘Tucker Carlson Tonight.’

TUCKER CARLSON: Who do you think is actually in charge of the government at this point?

GLENN GREENWALD: It’s bizarre because the Trump presidency brought us so much evidence showing us who was, one of the video clips was when chuck Schumer went on to the Rachel Maddow show, he had posted in the CIA for getting Iraq wrong and chuck Schumer said ethics aside, how can he be so stupid as to do that to the CIA — if you challenge the CIA, they have six different ways to Sunday to get back at you.

The entire Trump presidency was driven by all sorts of narratives from the media about how these heroic, independent generals like Mattis and John Kelly, and H.R. Mcmaster were going to save us from the elected president.

And there were all kinds of reports about how security state officials would conceal classified information they didn’t want President Trump to have in order to manipulate his decision-making, or subvert and ignore his decision-making liked when he would tell them to withdraw troops from Syria. And they would lie to him and pretend they did.

This was celebrated at the same time, they would say if you say there is a deep state in the United States, which is nothing more than what Dwight Eisenhower warned about, a permanent power faction in Washington that rules the country regardless of the outcome of elections, they would tell you you are crazy, you are conspiracy theory, even as you are cheering for the classic definition of the deep state in the first place. You have to be a conspiracy theorist or incredibly gullible not to believe that exists.

TUCKER CARLSON: Here is the evidence that won me over. Famously, people say to know who’s in charge look at who you’re not allowed to criticize, what is the one group Republicans and Democrats never criticize? The national security state.

Republicans are happy to go after the IRS or the Education Department, I can’t remember the last time a Republican leader meaningfully criticize the DOJ and the Pentagon, Democrats are exactly the same, that tells you everything, doesn’t it?

GLENN GREENWALD: The amazing thing is, for whatever you want to point to in Donald Trump’s comportment and governance, which I think are several valid ones, one of the most important things that he did was he deviated from that cage that presidents are kept in, which is he told the American people there are the security state agents who think they run the government and he stood up to them and challenge their orthodoxies and pieties and showed Americans, especially people in the Republican party on the right, that these institutions are not noble or benevolent but are highly pernicious.

They want to interfere in our domestic politics and they ought to be deeply distrusted to. I think that was one of the most important things he did and it was for that reason, his willingness to criticize them that they hated him and spent four years trying to undermine his presidency, and the amazing thing is they always talk about the sanctity of democracy. How was democracy more threatened than having unelected people who operate in the dark free to undermine and sabotage the person that Americans chose as their president?

TUCKER CARLSON: Thank you, exactly. If you want to wreck democracy, that’s how you do it’s. There’s a lot of evidence the last president was concerned about their power on a personal level, like, he understood how powerful they are. Really quick, do you think at this stage it would be possible for a president to push back and to strip the unelected power centers of some of their power in the government?

GLENN GREENWALD: You would need a big army behind you, that’s why people were petrified of J. Edgar Hoover, he kept dossiers on every politician throughout Washington. They do have a lot of amassed power. You need the population to rise up against them for that to work.
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